Last updated 6/18/09



Saturday, March 7, 2009

Progressive Catholics

Up until now I've been calling them liberal Catholics, but I know now what they call themselves (thanks, Katherine) - "progressive" Catholics.  "Progressive" as in "progress."  Our out-dated ways - men as priests, marriages between men and women, the sanctity of life and of sex - these things must be stripped away and the Church refurbished with practices and an ideology that is more...with the times.  After all, Church scholars and theologians don't know what they're talking about - they're out of touch with what God wants, with what is proper.  But we know what's best.  We, the progressive lay Catholics of America.  Screw the bishops!  Progress!


I keep coming back to C.S. Lewis, but he really does provide a lot of valuable insights and wisdom, especially on these terms.  In one point in The Problem of Pain, he points out that one of the more dangerous attitudes of Christians of our time is our preoccupation with the virtue of mercy (charity).  Indeed, this can be applied to progressive Catholics.  He points out that there have been other points in history where mercy was not so highly valued, yet at each time, that people believes their own highly-raised virtue(s) to be superior and more pleasing to God than any other - be it courage or temperance or chastity.  Do you remember when chastitity was an important virtue?  Yet today, for our progressives, mercy is the be-all and end-all.  

Furthermore, this, in speaking of how revenge and retribution are not inherently wrong:

Some enlightened people would like to banish all concepts of retribution or desert from their theory of punishment and place its value wholly in the detterence of others or the reform of the criminal himself.  They do not see that by so doing they render all punishment unjust.  What can be more immoral than to inflict suffering on me for the sake of dettering others if I do not deserve it?  And if I do deserve it, you are admitting the claims of 'retribution'.  And what can be more outrageous than to catch me and submit me to a disagreeable process of moral improvement without my consent, unless (once more), I deserve it?  
(The Problem of Pain, 91-92)

Lastly, of forgiveness - and I think this is especially important.  To put this in context, Lewis is asking if a horrible man who has lived a base life and delights in nothing but the suffering of others is deserving of forgiveness (after all, we have a compassionate God):

The demand that God should forgive such a man while he remains what he is, is based on a confusion between condoning and forgiving.  To condone an evil is simply to ignore it, to treat it as if it were good.  But forgiveness needs to be accepted as well as offered if it is to be complete: and a man who admits no guilt can accept no forgiveness.
(The Problem of Pain, 124)

In my mind, and in the minds of many of my fellows, progressive Catholics are guilty of condoning evil.  You cannot forgive a pro-choice politician for his or her actions if he or she is not sorry, for example.  And none of them are sorry, or they would change their ways.  Thus their actions are condoned by many of "our own."  Didn't Jesus dine with sinners?  Didn't he forgive them?  Yes, but they sought forgiveness, and he always told them to go and sin no more.  He didn't say "No problem - see you the next time you cheat your neighbor or go whoring yourself!"



7 comments:

Katherine said...

Up until now I've been calling them liberal Catholics, but I know now what they call themselves (thanks, Katherine) -"progressive" Catholics...

You are welcome. Either progressive or liberal Catholic is fine.

Those two terms were first applied to me right after my husband and I moved to Washington, DC and held a meeting in our home of some concerned parishioners who wanted to liberalize the seating policy at Mass and the admissions policy for the parish school. We were called some other things as well, but out of respect for you, I would not post such terms.

However, throughout our effort (ultimately successful) on this matter, we kept a spirit of charity towards the conservatives of our parish.

Blue Shoe said...

Charity is an admirable virtue. One of my chief points was, however, that it is not the only one, nor have we any reason aside from vanity to assume it is more important than any of the other virtues.

Katherine, although I've been told by other Catholic blog forum denizens that you're a troll, I do see that you are trying to do more than incense people. Even if I disagree with many of your ideas and think have lost sight of some of our most important Catholic ideals, you do seem to be intelligent and sincere (when you're not making offensive comments about bishops). =P

Out of curiosity, why do you visit so many blogs that seem to be based on ideas and principles that you oppose? Are you searching for truth and insights, gathering information for "battling" the enemy, or trying to convert others to your way of thinking? Nothing wrong with branching out and reading things you disagree with, but I have just been wondering.

Katherine said...

Charity is an admirable virtue. One of my chief points was, however, that it is not the only one, nor have we any reason aside from vanity to assume it is more important than any of the other virtues.

No debate there. Do you think I ignored other virtues besides charity in regard to the conservatives in my parish in the incident I mentioned?

Out of curiosity, why do you visit so many blogs that seem to be based on ideas and principles that you oppose?

You would probably have to explain which blog(s) you are referring to fo rme to give an intelligent answer.

Can I ask which most important Catholic ideals you think I have lost sight of?

Blue Shoe said...

I guess AmP springs to mind right away.

I don't know you personally, but it seems to me that most progressives forsake or bend the cardinal virtues in most cases.
Prudence, or right judgement, because they often claim issues like poverty or capital punishment to be of equal or greater importance than abortion.
Justice for much the same reason - they claim they must work towards social justice while ignoring the rights and sanctity of life of the unborn.
Temperance because many oppose the Church's stance on birth control and pre-martial sex.
Fortitude because they try to shame brave Church leaders (like a certain bishop) who stand up and defend Church teachings.

I'm not saying that "non-progressive" Catholics are paragons of the virtues, but I am saying that for the most part their priorities are in better order.

Respond if you like, but this is getting a little tiresome and may be my last comment on this here...neither of us is going to relent, are we?

Katherine said...

I guess AmP springs to mind right away.

Any others?

Prudence, or right judgment, because they often claim issues like poverty or capital punishment to be of equal or greater importance than abortion.

I don't assert that claim.

Justice for much the same reason - they claim they must work towards social justice while ignoring the rights and sanctity of life of the unborn.

I don't assert that claim.

Temperance because many oppose the Church's stance on birth control and pre-martial sex.

I don't oppose the Church's stance nor have I ever violated it. I am the mother of five, two of whom I have given to the priesthood.

Fortitude because they try to shame brave Church leaders (like a certain bishop) who stand up and defend Church teachings.

Unlike the above, here you got me. I would dispute the claim that Catholics are bound, under pain of sin and denial of the sacraments, for voting against a non-germane amendment to a Church supported bill, asserted to be a "poison pill" and dependent of the theory of the fungibilty of funds, particularly as my own bishop has written me, denying that theory on another piece of legislation.

(I know this sounds convoluted, but I think the fact is the proponents of the claim have a very convoluted one).

Blue Shoe said...

Well, as I said - those were my general feelings on progressive Catholics. I don't know you personally.

Katherine said...

Well, as I said - those were my general feelings on progressive Catholics. I don't know you personally.

Yes, I do think there has been a lack of serious and respectful dialogue that has allowed many Catholics to have a mistaken view of their fellow churchmen. And I think these misimpressions are found on all sides.

There certainly were those back when I was active in CIC who though we liberals were too charitable towards the conservatives. I still think we followed the right course.